(no subject)

[oiran]

When you ask someone to beta read, what do you expect from them? In recent weeks, I have heard various things from friends about their beta experiences and I've been a little shocked at what some writers expect from a beta. People apparently will send out story files that are devoid of capitalization, any reasonable semblance of punctuation, or even paragraph breaks. Perhaps even more disturbing, there do exist authors who expect the beta to help craft major plot arcs without a co-author credit. In my elitist opinion, if you want to be a writer, you really do need to actually write the story yourself.

Personally, I have had very good experiences being a beta reader in terms of the quality of the files I have received to work on. There is no one I have betaed for to this point that I wouldn’t happily beta for again, although I get the impression that quite a few of the writers I have read for were less than happy with the experience. For this reason, I'd be interested to know what people want from a beta in order to improve my skills, as I would definitely welcome the opportunity to read for more people, especially now that I'm becoming more involved in anime fandoms. However, as things are right now, there are a few writers I nearly always read for, and who also read for me.

I am an impatient, whiny diva when it comes to sending out and getting back a beta file, but I also understand that other people do not have the same sense of urgency that I do when it comes to my story. Someone being unable to finish a beta job on my schedule is my problem, not theirs. Typically, I tell people that I am going to have to post by X date/time, and if they're not done, I'll just go ahead without their input, though I certainly would like to have it, if at all possible. When I do have to post (due to deadlines or my own impatience) without all the opinions I had solicited, I am kicking myself, not the betas, for not allowing enough time to be able to take all input into account. So, despite being a self-absorbed baby-diva type person, I think I'm a fairly well-adjusted beta subject.

It can be easy to misunderstand someone else's time requirements, however. If someone tells me, "Take your time, I'm in no rush," I believe them, and sometimes it turns out that people are just being nice and trying not to pressure me. Sometimes they are, in fact, kind of in a hurry. Really, if you are in a rush, TELL YOUR BETAS. To be legitimate, a rush doesn't have to be someone else's deadline - it can just be that you want it. Of course, it is your story, and you're ultimately responsible for any version you post or submit. If you don't want to wait, then don't wait, but don't blame your betas for the results of your impatience.

Based on my own experiences, and the weird stories I've heard recently, I offer the following suggestions for anyone trying to find a good beta match.

Suggestions:

• Read your story over before you send it to betas. A stream-of-consciousness dumped onto a page is usually not good enough to send off. It should have a bit of coherence.


• Break it up into paragraphs. Use punctuation, and use it as appropriately as you know how. Punctuation isn't really that complicated--it's a formula, not a mystery.


• Spell character names correctly. My first YnM fic was full of character name typos that were totally humiliating for me and ended up being the focus of most readers' attention. Learn from my mistake, please.


• Assuming your fic is written in English, let the beta know if English is not your first language. Word usage and especially verb tenses may need special attention in such cases. Personally, the people I've betaed for whose first language is other than English seem to have that Nabokovian ability to make native English speakers despair of ever doing anything decent with their own language, but I do realize this isn't always the case.
  
• USE YOUR SPELLCHECKER. The spellchecker that comes with MS Word is not 100% useful, but it's better than nothing. The grammar checker included with Word is wrong about a great many things, but it can be very helpful with comma usage, that vs. which, and some tense issues.


• Tell the beta what you want: a line-by-line beta, or a general impression. Most line-by-line beta readers use the "track changes" feature in Word and will give you specific assistance, advice and comments throughout the story file. A general impression can be as simple as an e-mail saying, "I liked it, especially when X happened." Personally, I must have line-by-line, so there's no reason for me to inflict my divaness on people who haven't the inclination to go into that degree of detail.


• If you want specific input on certain aspects of writing, make that clear. And, if you don't want input on certain things, you ought to state that up front, too. Personally, I wouldn't beta for anyone who was adamantly against receiving certain types of input, but there are plenty of beta readers out there who might be willing to accommodate your quirks.


• If you're soliciting readers and you care whether or not the beta reader is also a writer, you might want to say so. I know there are many excellent editors who are not writers themselves, but I prefer working with betas who also write, and who preferrably write in the appropriate fandom. If it's important to you, say so.
  
• If you have a deadline, let the beta know. If the deadline is simply that you're impatient, that's still valid, so let the beta know.


• When you post, give credit where it is due. Always say "thank you" unless the beta doesn't wish to be thanked for one reason or another.


• Develop a sense of humor. Know that typos are funny (for Primary beta readers: St. Lex!). Know that someone saying your story doesn't work for them is not the same as someone telling you that you suck.

Got anything to add? Think I'm wrong? Want to tell me why I'll never get to beta for you again? Please do ;)

This PSA brought to you by the intense relief felt when I realized I had a deadline date wrong and didn't have to post a shitty story tonight after all! I have a day to fiddle with it and make it better!

Comments

[runpunkrun]

These are some very reasonable guidelines. I can't believe people actually send out stories for beta that don't have punctuation or paragraph breaks! What are they thinking?

I've been using the same couple of betas for years now, and sometimes I'm worry I'm getting complacent because I don't look for new readers, but I trust them to tell me the truth about my writing.

I want serious, hard-core beta. I want to hear if I've got a comma in an awkward place, if I'm using a word wrong, if a metaphor doesn't work, if I've got a plot hole the size of Texas, if I've got characters acting weird, if I've used the same word twice in one sentence, or if I'm lacking any kind of narrative arc. My betas do that for me. They give me honest, constructive criticism, and they understand that no matter how good a point they've made, I still might not take their advice.

It's been so long since I've beta read for someone who didn't also beta for me that I've forgotten how I did it, but I think I asked the writer what they were looking for, if they had any specific areas they were concerned about, any questions they wanted answered. Otherwise I tend to give the sort of beta *I'd* like to receive, which can be off-putting for some.

Speaking of which, if you do send your SV story to me for beta, can you paste it into the body of an e-mail. I don't have Word. I have to do this the old school way.

All right, enough procrastinating. Back to pretending to write.

[velvetglove.livejournal.com]

I feel very fortunate that I have received coherent, punctuated files from everyone I have ever beta read for.

*moment of praiseful silence for reasonable writing beings and their sense-making files*

Perhaps my good beta fortune is a result of only reading for writers in SV fandom and for a handful of talented adults in anime fandoms. It seems that almost any other fandom is full of extremely young and virginal Mary Sues who are only writing for fun anyway and thus are hostile toward constructive criticism.

I've been using the same couple of betas for years now, and sometimes I'm worry I'm getting complacent because I don't look for new readers, but I trust them to tell me the truth about my writing.

I've been working with the same people for quite some time now, too, and I've been wanting more input, so I was (truly) thrilled when you offered to read. At one point, I thought I had found someone who could be my Queen Bee Ideal beta, but she seemingly lost interest after poking holes in one story for me. Unfortunately, I have no leverage with which to force her to read for me, though I would if I could.

I don't have Word. I have to do this the old school way.

I am intrigued and oddly impressed. What do you use for a word processor?

[runpunkrun]

I generally only beta for people whose work I've read before, otherwise it's too easy to end up with something that's beyond help. The X-Files fandom used to have a mailing list where you could send away for a beta. Now those were some brave souls, willing to read anything fandom threw at them. Yeh.

I don't use a word processor because my computer is very old and doesn't deal with technology well. I use NoteTab Light, a free notepad program. It's small and quiet and doesn't make me crash horribly like Microsoft Works does, the program that came installed on this computer. NoteTab doesn't have spellcheck, which is unfortunate because I am a terrible speller, but then I don't have to put up with Bill Gates trying to autoformat everything I do, either. I'm actually quite happy with it. I don't blue screen three times a day anymore, and it ensures everything I write is in plain text.

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

*cackles* St. Lex.

Good times.

[velvetglove.livejournal.com]

You know why his skin looks so nice? Ample amounts of ASTRINGENT.

Yeah. Good times ;)

[georgeh.livejournal.com]

Well, I consider myself pretty strict when it comes to what I want betaed. I read and reread my stories so many times before publication that I usually just skip the beta part (partially because I've yet to find a beta in my fandoms that does as intensive as I want). Most beta readers I encounter say, "I really liked it but maybe part X was a little confusing." To me, that's what the reader should comment, not my beta. While I do want my beta to catch "confusing" parts I mostly want her to catch stupid grammar errors, occasional typos (typing 't he' instead of 'the' or something equally stupid) and other such line-by-line betaing. I tend to misuse commas -- I'm much better now but if I don't active rebeta my story (myself) looking explicitedly for commas/comma splices/etc. many will slip through. While I expect line-by-line (or at least paragraph-by-paragraph)with tracking changes on from my betas, I also want the option to disagree with what they say without fear of damaging our relationship. I want her to feel she can comment on my story and I can respond in like.

I always thank my betas, usually in a notes section of the story/chapter (unless asked not to). As for turn around . . . I know the urge to get stories posted immediately!!!!111 so I like quick betas but I've waited two weeks before to let a beta beta a chapter for me but when she sent it back I had to completely rewrite parts and I had her rebeta it. And it was over the Christmas holiday. Of course, if I need it by set-date/time I will say that in the request.

Although, like I said, I mostly do my own beta work now -- and that is write it, close it and sleep on it and reread it the next day. Then I usually reread it again a week later and wince at the typo or comma that got through and fix again. I constantly reread my stories and edit them for grammatical errors. :/ It's amazing how many times you and a beta can read through and miss something.

Geez this got long winded. But let me know if you know anyone who betas quickly, line-by-line and wouldn't mind/likes BeatlesSlash! Hahaha.

[fromward.livejournal.com]

I love doing beta work, doing research and helping writers over IM. I also use IM to get a feel of what their work is about and what kind of beta they're looking for. I get frustrated though, when writers don't write me back and tell me what they think of the beta or say thank you. Their silence leads me to think that they're offended by my suggestions or that my beta didn't help them because I didn't understand what kind of piece they wanted to write.

I think doing beta work helps me with my own writing and heightens my awareness of things that are happening in the episodes when I re-watch them. It's also something that I find very enjoyable, even though it can get stressful sometimes when the piece is difficult.

The most important thing for me as a beta is open communication between myself and the writers. They need to be able to tell me what kind of beta work they want me do, and what kind of end product they'd like to obtain. It drives me nuts when people say, 'Oh, just do whatever you want with it.' And appropriate credit would be nice, too.

[angryhamster.livejournal.com]

i need, and can only really provide, line by line betas. when i send off a story, i want it picked clean down to the bones, even if it does occasionally break my heart when reading it. i can still remember the very first fic i ever had proofed by someone other than myself, and it was a heart-wrenching experience (i was only sixteen at the time). the copy i got back was filled with all kinds of notes on just about everything. i do believe i cried when reading parts of it, mostly out of sheer embarassment at some of the (deeply glaring) mistakes i hadn't spotted myself. however, i learned from the experience, and i think the story was all the better for it. i'm at the point now where a good, throuough beta only makes me wince a little (ok, a lot), though, and i defintely hate posting stuff unproofed.

i always give credit to my betas, and although it wouldn't bother me hugely if someone forgot to credit me, i'd rather they did. as for being the beta, honesty is very important to me, so although i usually try and get betas for others done as fast as i can, i would really prefer if someone would tell me how fast they want it back so i can give it special attention if they're in a proper rush, even if it is just that they think it's really swell and are dying to post. i can't imagine sending someone a story with the errors (capitalization, missing story arcs etc) you mentioned above. that strikes me as kinda... rude.

i really should do more beta reading. i'd forgotten how much fun it is to help someone work out the issues in their story and help them out. i would have offered to read yours for you, but by the time i saw the post you had about six comments, so i figured you were ok.

[twigged.livejournal.com]

It's funny because I've beta'd for people who I got the impression didn't really appreciate my style, either. I certainly was never asked a second time. But, I've fairly recently beta'd for both ethrosdemon and amanuensis1, a couple authors who I respect immensely, and who are *not* friends of mine, and they were both like, "wow, you're a *really* good beta!" So, I think I'm well matched for people whose writing is already pretty polished. If I got a file with no punctuation, etc. I would have a meltdown.

I actually find beta'ing a sort of drudgery because I've found it's hard for me to enjoy the fic as I would normally be able to do. I start with the intention of doing a first readthrough for general impressions, but I'm grabbing for my pen within the first couple pages. :P

[alejandradd.livejournal.com]

Now I'm curious. St. Lex?

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

This is excellent and I'm going to link to this in a post of my own. Good thinking, Rabbit!

[justabi.livejournal.com]

Okay, you know what irks me? When people spell my name wrong when thanking me. It's just annoying, so spell people's names right! Arg. Anyway.

I like to beta for people, because I feel like I'm part of the process.

I like my beta's to tell me what they think about every little thing. My last beta told me she thought an entire segment was boring, and while I loved that bit, I was glad to get her imput on it.

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

This is excellent advice for every beta and every writer looking for a beta. One thing I can think to add is be honest if you, as a beta, cannot do the type of beta the author wants. I cannot do anything but a thorough, line-by-line beta that covers not only the technical aspects of spelling, grammar, and punctuation, but also characterization, plot, scene structure, etc. It's the kind of beta I want, and it's the only kind I can give.

I tend to write with an alpha reader. She and I exchange snippets over chat, and give each other our initial impressions. This helps catch a lot of things before the story is even finished. It would probably also help us both keep "clean copy" in terms of paragraphing and capitalization, but I don't think either of us could even fathom not doing these things automatically. It's just...I'm sorry, but you are just not an author, and your work not a story, unless you at least get the basics of the format right, i. e. capitalization at the beginning of each sentence, starting a new paragraph when a new character begins to speak, etc. I have volunteered to beta for authors in the past, and rescinded that offer when a document was sent to me that was just one big chunk of text. No. Just no.

I always advise new authors I beta for (which aren't many, these days) to step away from the story for a day or two before sending it out to beta. Then come back to it and read it over. Fix any errors that jump out at you at that time, then send it off to your betas. The more preliminary work you do, the better your chances that your betas are going to catch more of the problems, and your story will turn out being as close to perfect as it can get. It also saves you time on future rewriting, if you do what you can now.

These days, I only beta for a handful of authors I've known for years, and I have a few core betas who see pretty much every word I write. I'm still looking for another core beta for YnM, though. ::eyes you::

*G*

One thing I like about regular betas is that they know my quirks, and they know how to point out when those quirks are working and when they aren't. What's more, I'll listen to a regular beta on such a quirk, when I might not to an unknown beta, especially if the quirk is a stylistic choice. There's got to be a level of trust and knowledge there so that when a beta says, "That thing you like to do is not working here," I won't be left to wonder if it really is working, and it's just that the beta doesn't like that style. This is one reason I personally try to have at least three betas look at each story. That way, if two or more of them agree on something that's not an absolute (like a misspelling), then I know for certain it's a problem a lot of readers will have.

So, as an author, I'd say try to identify your style, and look for betas who like that style, or at least don't dislike it. And as a beta, be honest if you don't like a certain style (or POV, or tense, etc.). Just as you wouldn't offer to beta for a pairing you hate, be upfront if the story turns out to be first-person POV and you hate first-person. If you can't stand poetry, make sure the author's background isn't poetry, because that's going to show up in her prose and it's going to irk you (I speak from experience, as a poetic author who has had two betas bow out on her because they hated poetry). It's a fairly common complaint in fandom when your betas like you or your writing so much that they don't actually do the job of betaing, but I think it's just as problematic if your beta hates the kind of writing you do and can't see past it to get to the actual flaws in your story.

[highd.livejournal.com]

I think I could have used this post a few weeks ago.

I think when I write I am expecting a lot from a beta and I don't think about what I am trying to say I just shoot off the first thing I write and expect them to fix it for me and make me look good.

That is expecting a lot.

I think from now on I am going to thing before I send read it over and look at it with more then a " I really want to get this to beta" attitude.

The thing I have learned about myself through this post is not to expect the beta to make me look good I should try and look good on my own and have the beta tidy my stories up to be sent out the door.

thanks so much.

[maelwaedd.livejournal.com]

My favourite beta in all the lands is also a close r/l friend. We've got a great relationship now where she'll tell me whether or not the story's any good. And, in the case of the last challenge fics, things like, 'I know the deadline is today. But delete the story and start again.'
Best. Experience. Ever.